Talk:Nazi Germany (Earth-616)
Move I don't think that the Nazi party should be listed under Earth-616. First off, it is an organization and we have not been putting races or locations under this same designation. It also seems to be "the same" in any universe they are found. Am I wrong in thinking this? :Composition of members is different across realities. Plus there are several realities where the Nazi Party is now ruling the world. While it should definitely be moved, I think it should be moved to a more accurate name. Nazi Party (Earth-616), or National Socialist German Workers' Party (Earth-616). Or Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (Earth-616). While the origins might be the same across most realities, the histories can range quite a bit. :--GrnMarvl14 22:19, April 29, 2010 (UTC) ::Thought we usually checked talk pages before moving to see if there were any ongoing discussions regarding the move. Even if we weren't going with an Earth designation, we should at least have gone with a more full name. ::--GrnMarvl14 14:56, May 17, 2010 (UTC) :Added a move stub with their full name. Nazi could be referring to any individual who's associated with the party (bit like having a page for the Democratic Party simply called "Democrat"), so ideally we can either stick with what I've put up, or go with Nazi Party. Just...something a little more specific to the party itself. :--GrnMarvl14 00:01, June 28, 2010 (UTC) :: I agree with the more accurate name, but also with the earth designation. I added another move stub.--edkaufman 06:20, July 12, 2010 (UTC) : I don't see why we would need the Earth designation, now that we have an Unabridged History for the 616 reality. For realities where the Nazis have marked differences from the real Nazis, we could use an "Alternate Versions" section like we have with the article on the Daily Bugle or other organizations. GhostUser (talk) 23:36, August 31, 2012 (UTC) ::But why though? The Nazi Party, for sake of arguement, is still essentially a team, much like an X-Men team or Avengers team. But in this case, it's motivated on politics and acts of genocide. Alternate version sections are usually used for items and locations; the party is neither. --Spencerz (talk) 00:46, September 1, 2012 (UTC) :::I think I might be thinking about (human classification)|Race, as in " " (i.e. they thought they were creating the perfect race à la Homo Superior). Maybe the article could work that way, although now that I think about it, it probably wouldn't. First, they identify themselves as a Party (it's in the name) and then there's the common sense that they're Humans, so they are definitely a team/organization. GhostUser (talk) 04:20, September 1, 2012 (UTC) year by year history isn't this a little too much information to be thrown at the readers? I appreciate the work being done, but simply judging from the length of the article on 1941, this is going to be huge when it's done. I propose listing this under an "expanded history" that can be hidden/shown.--edkaufman (talk) 16:37, June 16, 2011 (UTC) :An aesthetically pleasing Hide and Show feature might be nice.--Savageland 17:13, June 16, 2011 (UTC) :: As the one who is making all the major contributions, I agree. I'm going to do that right now. I was thinking of rolling back one of the previous versions of the page prior to my additions and doing an Expanded history page (Much like I've done with Captain America, Namor, Human Torch etc.) ::Nausiated 19:57, December 25, 2011 (UTC) Name from Nazi Party to Nazi Germany This organization is treated across the database as Nazi Germany. In history and appearances are many encounters with Nazi Germany's military or intelligence which have nothing to do with the Party. --Mrkermit (talk) 19:39, April 22, 2015 (UTC) : I completely agree that at the moment, no distinction is being made between "regular" armed forces, i.e the Wehrmacht of Germany during the war, which was of course under the command of the Nazi party, but only consisted to a small degree of party members itself. I suppose going by your run of the mill "named villain", a lot of them were shown with the Nazi armband (like the Red Skull), which makes it pretty safe to assume they were members. I do suggest creating a separate category for the German Army, though.--edkaufman (talk) 21:02, May 19, 2015 (UTC) :: the move was premature - as I pointed out, there are inconsistencies on how the terms are used. And I'd even agree, that quite often, the party is confused with the country. However, this isn't solved by simply moving it over to the country, especially considering this is the term for a specific time period in that country. I don't think we have a precedence for having pages for that (it's like having a page for "Roosevelt USA". Again, I suggest making distinction between their German Armed forces (maybe a Wehrmacht page) and the Nazi party and its agents. I suggest moving the page back until more people weigh in on the discussion.--edkaufman (talk) 20:55, May 31, 2015 (UTC) ::: I'm going to have to say that changing the name was premature. Using the name of the political party is because those were the master minds behind everything that happened during World War II. Most of the villains during wartime tales were usually actual members of the National Socialist party. You could split hairs by saying "well what about the ones that were forced into the party or were just following orders", but they are very much an exception to the general rule of most Nazi characters in comics who were willing participants. Also the term "Nazi Germany" refers to the country at the time the Nazis were in control. At least in general nomenclature. The original page name was the most accurate, however I would even accept the page simply being renamed to "Nazis", since they is what most laypeople recognize the National Socialist German Workers Party as. :::Nausiated (talk) 16:22, June 1, 2015 (UTC) :::: Glad to see I'm not completely off track here. From what I remmember, the page was named "Nazi" before it became the full name of the party to conform with naming conventions. Again, I propose to try and differentiate between things that beling more to the country (like normal soldiers) and the ones who are closer affiliated to the party (most Nazi super-villains, the SS, the Gestapo). Might be a lot of work, but it might be worth it. I've been wanting to go through the old Marvel comics anyway. ;)--edkaufman (talk) 19:24, June 1, 2015 (UTC) ::::: I was the one proposing the move and I still think it's better than National Socialist German Workers Party. At least in the Golden Age comics Nazi Germany, Empire of Japan and Fascist Italy (I don't know should I be happy or disappointed that my home country Finland weren't among those ;) ) were enemy organizations with no differentiating of parties, government or military. So Roosevelt USA don't apply here, WWII Axis powers were clearly unique governments/organizations. We also have precedence in Imperial Japan (Earth-616) and Italian Social Republic (Earth-616) (which should be moved also). I think that Wehrmacht deserves own page but even it should be sub-categorized under Nazi Germany. All the villains beside the Wehrmacht were just Nazis with swastikas so they all would be in the same category anyways but I think Nazi Germany is more intuitive and clear name for them. I don't like name Nazis because it's better to differentiate neo-Nazis from the WWII Nazis so term Nazi Germany would refer to "country at the time the Nazis were in control" as it should be. --Mrkermit (talk) 22:21, June 6, 2015 (UTC) :::::: Thanks for pointing out those two - Of course, Imperial Japan is a different case alltogether: The page itself specifically states that it is concerned with the phase of Japanese history between the 1860s (when the Emperor rose to power after the Shogunate) and WWII, so that's at least a correct use and one that does not only include WWII-Japan. The Italian Social Republic is a different case - that's the name of the fascist Italian State that covered only Northern Italy after 1943 until its surrender to the Allies; the rest of the time, the state was called Kingdom of Italy. So unless there's contradicting evidence from the comics, the name's completely wrong. Unlike Germany, there were two different fascist parties involved, so changing it to the party name doesn't solve the problem. Fascist Italy maybe? As dor Germany, I've been a little convinced by the case for Nazi Germany, as at least wikipedia seems to consider that an official English name for the Third Reich, so I guess that's acceptable. Adding the Wehrmacht as a subpage of Nazi Germany is a problem as the Wehrmacht continues existing to this day and though I can't name an example from the top of my head, there coould be appearances of German soldiers after Nazi Germany times that woould be part of the Wehrmacht, but not of Nazi Germany.--edkaufman (talk) 09:00, June 8, 2015 (UTC) ::::::: Actually Wehrmacht refers to German military 1935-1946 (roughly the same as Nazi regime). And on a second thought it would be hard to differentiate the Wehrmacht from the Party. For the regular soldiers maybe but there was usually a main antagonist in form of monocled officer declaring Nazi ideology. And what about spies and Bundists? In comics all Germans and collaborators were all just Nazis and I have explained why I think Nazi Germany would be better name than plain Nazis. --Mrkermit (talk) 01:14, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::::::: Well played, you convinced me. I'll remove the move tag. The only one that's still open is the Italian Social Republic. If anyone has a better name proposal than Fascist Italy (Earth-616), let me know. As for the Wehrmacht, I don't know what brain fart rode me there - the army is of course called the Bundeswehr today, so you're absolutely right in that no page is needed.--edkaufman (talk) 10:06, June 11, 2015 (UTC) Clarification of Name Debate Community Consensus I know we talked about this on Talk:Nazis and reached a community consensus already, but apparently some people are still opposed to creating a consistent nomenclature for all these various Nazi organization articles, so if that's you, please make your case either here or, better yet, there. Thanks. -- Annabell (talk) 07:56, January 10, 2019 (UTC) :This stuff has been ab eye sore for a while. Consistent nomenclature pretty please. --FossilLord (talk) 06:17, August 23, 2019 (UTC)